Spokane light rail idea transformed into electric bus system

alobrown said on July 23, 2010 at 5:52 AM

If you are planning electric buses, you already have the electrical infrastructure to support the LRT. LRT has a much lower coefficient of friction at the rail than a tire at the asphalt, so you will be saving energy costs. LRT has a much lower operational cost than a bus, as the vehicles can be connected up and only use one driver for a larger number of passengers. Also the electric buses tend to have less visually appealing overheads, whereas LRT can have single wire operation. Lets get onto the subject of diesel vs electric. Diesel is more expensive and costly than the generation of electricity and the contaminants and particulates are harmful to human health. Suggest you look at WHO websit Stop thinking short term, buses have a typical longevity of between 5- 10 years, trains last between 25 and 40. Do the math on the operational costs and the initial outlay for LRT will pay handsomely over the operational costs of buses, plus attract more ridership with the ride quality.

jemma1 said on March 30, 2010 at 8:58 AM

I would prefer light rail locally. I would also like to see high speed rail from Seattle to Chicago routed through Spokane and Minneapolis/St. Paul. The track route exists already. Surely there must be some way to move us forward, prudently.

daisydog said on March 22, 2010 at 10:52 AM

Of course you knew GM is mostly responsible for "killing off" the light rail systems in place in the 1920's. They wanted to sell more buses! GM formed holding companies to buy up and motorize the railways directly. Thus, it helped organize and finance United Cities Motor Transit as a wholly owned GM subsidiary, as well as Greyhound, Rex Finance, Omnibus Corporation, National City Lines, Pacific City Lines, American City Lines, City Coach Lines, Manning Transportation and numerous other concerns, which acquired rail systems across the country, including those in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, San Diego and Oakland. O.K., I'm done for now!

daisydog said on March 22, 2010 at 10:47 AM

We used to have a great light rail system, it was cheap, and went everywhere. However, some days accidents happened: On Saturday, July 31, 1909, 16 passengers are killed and more than 100 are injured and maimed when two electric interurban trains owned by the Spokane & Inland Empire Railroad Company collide head-on at Gibbs, Idaho, approximately two miles northwest of Coeur d’Alene (some 30 miles from Spokane). The trains, linking Spokane with Coeur d’Alene, are carrying an estimated 600 passengers who are on their way to bid for Indian reservation lands. During this land rush, crowds are so large that the railroad is operating special trains on open schedules, running every 15 to 20 minutes. On a single-track electric railway, it is a blueprint for disaster.

daisydog said on March 22, 2010 at 10:44 AM

Am I the only one that knows this was all done over 100 years ago???? The Spokane & Inland Empire Railroad Company, incorporated in Washington state in 1906, was an alliance of small, local interurban railroads linking Spokane and surrounding communities with Lake Coeur d’Alene, a popular resort and recreational area. Electric interurban railroads often had three or more cars coupled together in a train. The cars had platforms in the front and rear with seating in the center section. Platforms were standing room only. Although a car might have a seating capacity of only 50 or 60 passengers, it could carry at least that many more standing in the aisle and on the platforms. Open streetcars hauled even more passengers hanging onto the outside of the car.

toobad2 said on March 12, 2010 at 11:03 AM

OH , YES FOLKS I USE CAPS BECAUSE WHEN I WAS DRINKING MY BEER THE OTHER MORNING IT SPILT IT INTO THE KEY BOARD AND STUCK THE CAP KEY ON. REALY I'AM JUST TOO LAZE TO HIT IT ALL THE TIME. NOT YELLING ABOUT ANYTHING AND I CAN SEE IT BETTER. HAVE A GOOD DAY.

toobad2 said on March 12, 2010 at 10:51 AM

WHEN THE POWER GOES OUT AND THE BUSES STOP THEN WHAT ? GAS OR ELECTRIC ? AND HOW DO YOU MAKE ELECTRIC POWER ? HUM , SEEMS LIKE WE BETTER GO BACK TO THE HORSE AND BUGGY DAYS IF WE WANT TO GO GREEN. ABOUT THE HORSE AND BUGGY I THINK THAT IS THE WAY THE MAIL IS SENT TO PRIEST RIVER . IT TAKES SO LONG TO GET ANYTHING UP HERE. HOW MUCH GREEN DO WE SEE IN THE WINTER? RIDE YOUR BIKE IN THE WINTER SURE THING. WANT TO MOVE PEOPLE? WHY NOT TRY A TRAIN? THEY SEEM TO BE USED IN EUROPE ALL OVER . SOME TRACKS ARE STILL HERE. WE COULD PUT ALOT OF PEOPLE TO WORK ON THE CHAIN GANGS TO LAY NEW TRACK. WHAT DO YOU THINK? IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERNT I HAVE'NT HEARD BEFORE. WHO IS FOR TRAINS.? LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE TRAINS.!!!

__dan__ said on March 8, 2010 at 7:13 PM

STA...Don't you dare buy a single square foot of real estate until you know this thing will be a "go." I want to know how it will be funded. I want to know how the stations will be secured. If it's anything like Portland's light rail system it will be plagued with cost over runs, dangerous terminals, and low ridership. Forget it once and for all!

reraymond said on March 8, 2010 at 11:37 AM

It’s electric bus RAPID transit, not just electric bus transit. They’re not interchangeable. “Spokane light rail idea transformed into electric bus system” implies the light rail vision is dead. InlandRail disagrees. “...the light rail organizers approached Spokane Transit Authority suggesting electric bus transit.” InlandRail is the only “light rail organizer” of which I’m aware, the implication being that InlandRail approached STA. They did no such thing – that part was played by AVISTA. Sadly, no media sources seem interested in understanding, let alone communicating why a long term vision for a mass transit system that can actually help shape and define more sustainable growth patterns and spark measurable, positive economic development would be good for the Spokane region. InlandRail and a lot of others believe that electric light rail is that system, at least for the east-west corridor. Check our their website at inlandrail.org

spokane_ranger said on March 7, 2010 at 10:07 AM

Ok...doesn't everyone see why the real reason AVISTA didnt want the light rail system? Its because they wanted the electric busses. Think about all the power that would have to be purchased by the city from them. I really dont see the ultimate benifit of a light rail system going towards the valley. People would have to get off at a few selected stops not like the current bus stops. This would make it a huge hassel to ride and get off where you want to.. and the taxes would hurt an already economicly depressed community. Just something to think about.

spoklahoma said on March 5, 2010 at 12:18 PM

why just not use the natural gas buses?

ricko56 said on March 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM

Why are they even thinking about it. If they keep saying they have to cut routes because of the sales tax. How can they afford this. And anouther thing to think about. Just like putting cameras on buses so they can spy on you.

5inpfs said on March 5, 2010 at 11:19 AM

Avista (an electricity providing near monopoly) supporting electric busses? How altruistic of them. (note sarcasm) Light rail should have been put in years ago.

camasvalleyataol said on March 5, 2010 at 9:36 AM

I love this bit from the story "the system would look a lot like light rail, but run on electricity and have wheels."

glovesnpearls said on March 5, 2010 at 8:22 AM

I must be reading the wrong website because, today – perhaps for the first time – there are snippets of logic and intellect contained in the majority of the comments posted. It adds up to thoughtful discussion. Thank you!

nothing said on March 5, 2010 at 8:08 AM

A light rail from where to where? Fancy electric buses? What traffic? Spokane does not have a traffic problem. Those who think it does have obviously never lived in a real city. Even talk and studying projects such as this are a waste of money. STA buses are fine as is...?

tanker said on March 5, 2010 at 7:54 AM

Even discussing this LUXURY during this type of economic crisis is absoulutely absurd. How can you discuss ELECTRIC busses when the diesel powered busses are not utilized? You want to go green? Its going to cost lots of tax dollars to do it. I equate it to someone on welfare or unemployment going on a european vacation or buying a multi million dollar house.How can anyone who has a brain in their head think we can spend millions of dollars to buy and build a electric bus system when the city cant seem balance the budget. So taxpayers dont complain about raising taxes to pay for this when avista raises electric rates after the city sets up the electric busses. If avista wants to sell the city all that electricity to run the busses then let them fund the construction of the grid or system required to run the busses.

jessboogie said on March 5, 2010 at 6:49 AM

nwpow.the Gov. if "for the people, by the people", they are to do "our" collective will, we are supposed to have a say. Its NOT supposed to be behind closed doors. Any city of our size and sprawl, has good public transportation. The freeway is beyond packed and light rail would eliminate alot of that. Downtown to postfalls and maybe further. agateshadow, I don't ride the bus for a few reasons,1. if it is too slow I would rather drive. 2. The buses stop running too early, I would rather drive.3 The ONE time I tried to buss instead of drive, the outside of the bus plaza smelled like pee and there were bums wandering around, I would rather drive. 4. STA is making new service cuts (wonder why, if the buses are so packed all the time?), if its going to be INCONVIENIENT, I would rather drive. See, there has to be a reason for people who drive everywhere to use public trans instead. It has to be fast, run earlier/later, and convenient, otherwise they would rather drive. And they do.

jadenewt said on March 5, 2010 at 12:34 AM

They are hiding the Electric Bus idea because they know that the people will most likely not approve it considering that STA is currently raising the riders rates (especially Paratransit which will be almost doubled by 2012) and discussing cutting services and routes while planning a "new" high upfront cost plan. They fear the outrage they will face at STA meetings when this is brought up. It's just more of the same from the shifty underhanded group that brought us the idea of Light Rail that could only be used by a VERY small portion of the Riding Public. What really needs to be discussed is extending the hours of service so riders can actually look for jobs that are open beyond 6am to 9pm and pretty much rolled up on weekends (Forget anything retail with those hours). I've lived in several metropolitan cities and never seen such a badly run system.

agateshadow said on March 5, 2010 at 12:07 AM

jessboogie and valerina apparently don't ride the buses because they're always packed with people Try visiting the plaza in the afternoon and not 10pm at night and you WILL see tons of people. Try riding the 90 and 25 buses and then tell me nobody rides the bus...Light Rail and Electric Bus System are not a good idea for Spokane. We already have to pay $1.25 to ride the bus as it is, what will we pay to ride an Electric Bus? $10? They need to stop focusing on these things and focus on more important things.

westy said on March 4, 2010 at 10:50 PM

Light rail from downtown to...the dead vacant Spokane Valley??? We need a heck of alot more people here to support it and pay for it!!

fixerone said on March 4, 2010 at 10:18 PM

Hmmmm Avista didn't support the light rail, but supports this? Wonder what monatary advantage this has for them. Usually when big biz supports or does not support, there is a dollar behind it. To bad common sense and honesty don't rule.

daisydog said on March 4, 2010 at 10:18 PM

The Spokane & Inland Empire Railroad Company, incorporated in Washington state in 1906, was an alliance of small, local interurban railroads linking Spokane and surrounding communities with Lake Coeur d’Alene, a popular resort and recreational area. Electric interurban railroads often had three or more cars coupled together in a train. The cars had platforms in the front and rear with seating in the center section. Platforms were standing room only. Although a car might have a seating capacity of only 50 or 60 passengers, it could carry at least that many more standing in the aisle and on the platforms. Open streetcars hauled even more passengers hanging onto the outside of the car.

nwpow said on March 4, 2010 at 10:18 PM

It SHOULDN'T be happening in the public arena. Do some polls, see what public preference for transit is, take that knowledge back to the board and ultimately make an educated decision and DO it. Yes, we want our gov't to be responsible, but its a GOVT. Too many stakeholders for everything now and too much micromanaging... just look at Seattle. The gov't exists to do things without everyone and their mom sitting in, otherwise why don't we just go get a quorum and have the whole state meet and talk about things?

jessboogie said on March 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM

Stupid,stupid,stupid! This city is so stupid! We should have had light rail years ago.The way the Valley/Liberty Lk/Post falls has grown.....duh! And I wonder why its behind closed doors and why Avista didn't want the Light rail to begin with, but now they support electric buses???? HHHMMMM, makes me wonder. Like valerina said before, no one rides the buses now.....so?

valerina said on March 4, 2010 at 8:52 PM

Light rail isn't just about green it is about getting vehicles off crowded roadways, adding electric buses does nothing to help that. If people aren't riding gas buses they certainly aren't going to be lining up to ride electric buses.

valerina said on March 4, 2010 at 8:50 PM

Light rail is the way to go. Why are they trying to do some halfway version, just to appease those who want to go green by going half green-ish? Go all green, with sensible light rail, park and ride lots on the outskirts, and bike capabilities. Go green or go brown as in dead environment...